This clip is taken from the sermon "The Cost of Discipleship," preached by Pastor Mark Driscoll at the Mars Hill Church Ballard campus in Seattle, Washington, on February 13, 2011. It is the 63rd sermon in our sermon series on the Gospel of Luke.
To watch or download the full sermon, visit: http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/l...
I hope these Muslims learn to stop the violent protests. It is sickening how they upset a Child over stupid Islam a religion for dummies.
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Muslim extremists chanted ‘British troops burn in hell’ outside a court today, as two men went on trial for burning poppies on Remembrance Day.
Ugly scenes erupted outside Belmarsh Magistrates’ Court, south-east London, as Muslims gathered to support Mohammed Haque and Emdadur Choudhury, who are accused of using ‘threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour’.
Their supporters’ chants of ‘democracy, hypocrisy’ were met with jeers from members of the English Defence League who waved flags of St George and placards of poppies.
Mohammad Haque, left, and Emdadur Choudhury arriving at Belmarsh Magistrates' Court today
The defendants were allegedly part of a group who shouted slogans that British soldiers were rapists and murderers during a demonstration on November 11 last year.
The incident happened during a two-minute silence close to the Royal Albert Hall where the Remembrance Day service is traditionally held.
Haque, 30, of Bethnal Green, and Choudhury, 26, of Spitalfields, pleaded not guilty to the charge under the Public Order Act.
Simon Ray, prosecuting, said Haque and Choudhury were part of the Armistice Day demo by the group Muslims Against Crusades in Kensington Gore.
He said they were protesting before and throughout the two-minute silence to mark Britain’s war dead.
Protesters burning a poppy at a Muslims against Remembrance Day protest on November 11 last year
Shortly after the end of the silence the two men lit large pieces of red and black plastic which were designed to resemble poppies, the court heard.
Mr Ray said that both defendants had acted jointly in the burning of the poppies.
'Muslims Against Crusades had gathered at the corner of Exhibition Road and Kensington Gore and on an opposite corner were members of the English Defence League,' said Mr Ray.
'The MAC protesters were carrying signs with slogans critical of Britain’s role in Afghanistan and used microphones to voice vehement criticism of the Armed Forces and those who supported them including allegations that British troops were rapists and murderers,' he said.
Members of the English Defence League protesting outside Woolwich Crown Court where two men went on trial for burning poppies on Remembrance Day last year
'The right of freedom of speech is very important and the decision to prosecute should not be taken lightly.
In this case the actions of these defendants went beyond reasonable protest and the exercise of freedom of speech.
'The prosecution was brought in order to prevent public disorder and to protect the rights of British people to exercise their right to the two-minute silence.'
A grandson of a Second World War soldier said he felt 'sick inside' when witnessing the men's protest, the magistrates heard.
Tony Kibble said tears of anger and rage welled in his eyes as the Muslim group shouted through the two minute's silence.
he said: 'Half way through, I looked up to see what was going on around and I saw a ball of fire fall to the ground. Literally, my stomach turned over.'
He continued: 'I felt sick inside. It is something that means so much to me and to see what I believed to be a wreath of poppies fall to the ground - it is just despicable.'
Video footage of the incident was shown in court today.
In it, a leader of the MAC can be heard to say 'the two minutes have started' before leading a series of anti-British chants.
Around 20 men at the demonstration joined in with shouts of: 'Burn, burn British soldiers, British soldiers burn in Hell.'
The crowd continued: 'British soldiers - murderers, British soldiers - rapists, British soldiers - terrorists.'
The trial continues.
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2011/02/congressman-allen-west-vs-cair-dont-try.html
The latest argument from the Council on American-Islamic Relations? "You can't show us a single verse where the Qur'an explicitly commands Muslims to attack America! Since the Qur'an nowhere commands Muslims to attack America, you can't say that Muslim attacks against America have anything to do with Islam!"
Sadly, this sort of reasoning, as flawed as it is, seems entirely persuasive when offered to most politicians, reporters, etc. But CAIR messed with the wrong Westerner this time.
BTW, this would be my response to CAIR's absurd argument. Muhammad commanded his followers to fight non-Muslims until they either pay the Jizya (in the case of Jews and Christians) or convert to Islam (in the case of pagans and other groups, or Jews and Christians who don't want to pay the Jizya). Muhammad was very clear on this point.
Qur’an 9:29—Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Qur’an 9:73—O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.
Qur’an 9:111—Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain.
Qur’an 9:123—O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).
Qur’an 47:35—Be not weary and fainthearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost: for Allah is with you, and will never put you in loss for your (good) deeds.
Qur’an 48:29—Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are severe against disbelievers, and merciful among themselves.
Sahih al-Bukhari 6924—Allah’s Messenger said, “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: La ilaha illallah (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah), and whoever said La ilaha illahllah, Allah will save his property and his life from me.”
Sahih Muslim 33—It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. Umar that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.
Qur'an 5:33—The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off on the opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter.
I was working on a refutation to the Talpiot Tomb but with so many Videos, articles and audio refutations there is not much left for me to say. So in a few days I am going to try to put a Article together with links to all these sources plus my own take on things. I will say I do not believe this video at all even before it had all these refutations I never even liked what I saw you could tell it was just sensationalism. Many people will make sensational videos or write books just to make money because this type of stuff sells in our culture. Well I will have this ready in the next few days God bless and enjoy.
I have decided to not support PYEM Ministry Inc http://pyemministry.blogspot.com/ for two reasons.
First one is that he has come out and told others that he is a homosexual and I cannot support that. My spiritual discernment has made it not possible to support such a Sin.
Second he is promoting hardline fundamentalist groups like Westboro Baptist Church and other organizations. I feel he is getting into violent rhetoric and will cause more harm then good.
Some of you may be upset with me but the truth must come out, though I strongly disagree with Islam I do not and will not support violence or violent rhetoric from any group. I don’t hate Muslims and I know not all are bad but from birth they are taught that we are the enemy. Worse yet they follow the wrong God and they are doomed to hell. Instead I feel we should share the Gospel with them and teach them the love of Jesus.
Interview 6 | White and Barcellos from MCTS on Vimeo.
I had my paltalk hacked last night and I guess it came in to a room I admin and caused problems. Instead of asking me the people assumed it was me and that I would say such rude things. When I got back on they called me a lier and basically attacked me. I would expect this from people my own age or younger but these were 60 year old woman who think they are holier than thou.
Anyways instead of keeping the drama going I decided to open my own room and not allow drama. As soon as I get the room open I will post the link on here. Many people have stopped being my friends because of the gossip that spread from these so called Christians. Paul tells us not to gossip (Romans 1:29 ESV) yet they do it so I ask you are they following Christ?
For a Great Article on this please read. The Failure of Atheism to Account for Morality
| 200 AD | Tertullian quoted the verse in his Apology, Against Praxeas |
| 250 AD | Cyprian of Carthage, wrote, "And again, of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost it is written: "And the three are One" in his On The Lapsed, On the Novatians, (see note for Old Latin) |
| 350 AD | Priscillian referred to it [Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. xviii, p. 6.] |
| 350 AD | Idacius Clarus referred to it [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 62, col. 359.] |
| 350 AD | Athanasius referred to it in his De Incarnatione |
| 398 AD | Aurelius Augustine used it to defend Trinitarianism in De Trinitate against the heresy of Sabellianism |
| 415 AD | Council of Carthage appealed to 1 John 5:7 when debating the Arian belief (Arians didn't believe in the deity of Jesus Christ) |
| 450-530 AD | Several orthodox African writers quoted the verse when defending the doctrine of the Trinity against the gainsaying of the Vandals. These writers are: A) Vigilius Tapensis in "Three Witnesses in Heaven" B) Victor Vitensis in his Historia persecutionis [Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. vii, p. 60.] C) Fulgentius in "The Three Heavenly Witnesses" [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 65, col. 500.] |
| 500 AD | Cassiodorus cited it [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 70, col. 1373.] |
| 550 AD | Old Latin ms r has it |
| 550 AD | The "Speculum" has it [The Speculum is a treatise that contains some good Old Latin scriptures.] |
| 750 AD | Wianburgensis referred to it |
| 800 AD | Jerome's Vulgate has it [It was not in Jerome's original Vulgate, but was brought in about 800 AD from good Old Latin manuscripts.] |
| 1000s AD | miniscule 635 has it |
| 1150 AD | minuscule ms 88 in the margin |
| 1300s AD | miniscule 629 has it |
| 157-1400 AD | Waldensian (that is, Vaudois) Bibles have the verse |
| 1500 AD | ms 61 has the verse |
| Even Nestle's 26th edition Greek New Testament, based upon the corrupt Alexandrian text, admits that these and other important manuscripts have the verse: 221 v.l.; 2318 Vulgate [Claromontanus]; 629; 61; 88; 429 v.l.; 636 v.l.; 918; l; r. |
http://frontpagemag.com/2011/02/18/islams-uncovered-meat-excuse-for-sexual-assault/
The news that 60 Minutes journalist Lara Logan had been brutally sexually assaulted and beaten in Egypt among chants of “Jew” really hit home. As a teenager and young woman in Egypt, I remember having to endure the humiliation of being pinched and groped in crowded buses and streets of Cairo. Onlookers are usually indifferent, some even laugh, leaving women in Muslim society even more ashamed of their bodies. Women who do not wear Islamic clothes, such as Christians and foreigners, are even more vulnerable. In Cairo, hearing a passing car yelling the “f” word or “whore” to a woman and then speeding up in the busy traffic is not uncommon.
In times of uprisings and revolutions, it is not uncommon for the mob mentality to take over, resulting in assaults and even killing of journalists. But what happened to journalists in Egypt, including Logan, was an outrageous violation of police duty; instead of helping the foreign victims, the police added to the abuse by hours of unnecessary and abusive interrogation of the victims themselves.
Egypt and many Muslim countries have a terrible record of sexual harassment. According to a survey conducted in 2008 by an Egyptian Women’s rights group, 83% of Egyptian women have been sexually harassed. The numbers for foreign women is a staggering 98%. Most of the men in the survey admitted they have harassed women and most of them blamed it on women for dressing provocatively. What is worse is that the majority of women in the survey believe that women who dress immodestly deserve the harassment.
Muslim culture has succeeded in turning women against each other and away from defending their human rights and dignity. The system rewards women who turn on other women who do not follow Sharia. A Muslim woman is given her much-craved respect only when she reports and condemns immodest women, turns against her sisters and agrees with a misogynist culture that blames the female victims and not the predators.
It was also reported that crowds yelled “Jew” at Logan. That does not surprise me, since a call that someone is a Jew has a meaning in Muslim countries. It means they are fair game for assault or worse; it means they are subhuman and deserve whatever happens to them. Muslim scriptures are full of commandments to kill Jews wherever they are and according to Islamic law, female captives in battle are automatically divorced from their husbands and can be sexually enslaved by their captors. Mohammed himself, who is viewed as the ideal example for men, in all his battles against non-Muslims allowed sexual enslavement of women captives. Such Islamic history lessons send the wrong message to Muslim men and influence how they view and relate to women and take away any feeling of guilt or shame.
From birth, Muslim boys are excused and defended for misbehaving towards their sisters and women in general. The message is that uncovered women are to be loathed and disrespected. Muslim preachers often rush to blame women as having “asked for it” or being “uncovered meat”. Even in Australia, an Egyptian Muslim preacher, Sheik al-Hilali, used the “uncovered meat” excuse to defend Muslim men who raped Australian women wearing bikinis on the beach. These kind of religious teachings are the reason behind honor killing, female genital mutilation and abuse, all of which are designed to tame women and set an example to the rest of society.
The anti-Jewish propaganda in Muslim countries is sickening and must be seen in relation to female abuse in general and to the assault of Logan in particular. Even I who was born and raised Egyptian once had a scary experience. On the way to Alexandria, an uncle wanted to stop in a village to meet a friend but got lost. As he went to look for directions, my siblings and I, who were wearing jeans and T-shirts and speaking English, attracted a village crowd around us yelling “Jews.” My sisters and I rushed inside the car. In no time the village police came to check us out but thank God by then my uncle showed them his ID and we left after some questioning. I can only imagine how Jews feel walking the street in any Muslim country.
Egyptian paranoid propaganda against Westerners and Jews is not only manifested in streets but affects every aspect of relationships between the ordinary Egyptian and foreigners in general. Foreign women are often called “Israeli agents” who are coming to ‘seduce’ Egyptian men. As to foreign men, they are often accused of being – what else? – CIA agents.
Many Egyptians describe the behavior of men who sexually harass women as un-Islamic and they believe this is a good enough explanation to end the conversation. They refuse to look within and see the truth behind the Islamic upbringing of men, how women are viewed both culturally and religiously and how Islamic teachings views non-Muslims. Muslims need to view themselves and the reality of their religious education more critically. Living in denial about one’s religion and the consequences of its teachings is toxic.
Nonie Darwish is the author “Cruel and usual Punishment” and the President of FormerMuslimsUnited.org.
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2011/02/anjem-choudary-vs-david-wood-would.html
I had to come out of retirement for this one. 
Tomorrow evening (Friday, February 18, 2011), I'll be debating Anjem Choudary at 8:00 P.M. (Eastern Standard Time) on ABN. The topic is: "Would Sharia Help the West?" Anjem believes that Western society, as it stands, is hopelessly flawed, and that the implementation of Islamic Law would greatly benefit the United States, Great Britain, and other Western nations. I believe that accepting Sharia would bring disastrous results, and that free people everywhere must resist Islamic law at all costs. Who's right? Only one way to find out.
Be sure to tune in to the program at 8:00 P.M. on ABN. If you don't get the channel via satellite, you can watch live on ABN's website. You can also call in after the debate to ask questions. In case you can't watch it live, the debate will be posted online when we're done.
***UPDATE*** Here's the debate:
December 14th, 2006, 16:07 GMT| By Stefan Anitei
If you think this is a femur, you're totally wrong!
It's a penis bone belonging to a cave bear!
The penis has a very simple job to do: to maintain sufficient stiffness to enter an orifice during the mating, and to deliver sperm. That's it.
Mammals solved it in the easiest way!
Most mammals have a unique bone called baculum (also penis bone, penile bone or os penis) in their penis. The only mammal species without baculum are the humans, horses, donkeys, rhinoceros, marsupials, rabbits, cetaceans (whales and dolphins), elephants and hyenas.
But baculum is present in most primates, rodents, carnivores, seals. The penis bone is kept in the abdomen and, when needed, a set of muscles push it into a sheath in the fleshy part of the penis. 
It enters within the erectile tissue, providing rigidness to aid during the copulation. The penis bone varies in size and shape by species and its characteristics are sometimes used to differentiate between similar species.
The word baculum originally meant "stick" or "staff" in Latin. The homologue of the baculum in female mammals is known as the baubellum or os clitoris.
In humans and mammals lacking the baculum and baubellum, the rigidity of the erection is provided entirely through blood pressure in the corpus cavernosum. This bone aids in copulation when mates have only a short encounter and need to perform quickly.
The baculum is for speed: sliding a bone in and out of a sheath is much faster than waiting for the hydraulics to kick in and limits the time spent mating, which is, after all, in a vulnerable position.
Indeed, mammals without a baculum have in change larger erectile penises and they perform much longer during copulation! ....
The baculum explains lion's sexual marathon of roughly 250 copulations in 4 days, even if each copulation lasts 30-70 seconds ....Because, in this case, erection depends more on a willingly moved muscle and not in tissue turgescence.
The largest baculum in the mammal kingdom belongs to the walrus, which can reach a length of 30 inches (75 cm): as big as a human femur!
Even large dogs have a 10 cm baculum!
Throughout many cultures, the penis bone has been used in rituals and is believed to possess the power and virility of the animal to which it once belonged.
In Chinese traditional medicine, tiger and bear bone penises are considered aphrodisiacs!
Unfortunately, this provoked a great deal of poaching in these animals, putting these species on the brink of extinction! ....
In the Bible's Book of Genesis, Adam's rib is removed to create Eve. Old Hebrew does not have a word for penis.
Some scholars suggest this story is an explanatory myth to explain the absence of a baculum in the human male, rather than a missing rib (in light of the fact that men and women have the same number of ribs).
Jews contributed more and Muslims to Science:
http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-myths-embryology.htm
| Jews outperform Muslims in science! | ||
| . | Nobel Prizes to Jews | Nobel Prizes Muslims |
| Literature: | 1910 - Paul Heyse | 1988 - Najib Mahfooz |
| Peace: | 1911 - Alfred Fried | 1978 - Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat |
| Economics: | 1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer | Muslims: (zero) |
| Physics: | 1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson | Muslims: (zero) |
| Medicine: | 1908 - Elie Metchnikoff | 1960 - Peter Brian Medawar |
| TOTAL: | Jews: 129 (one hundred twenty nine) | Muslims: only 7 Seven |
| Population | 14,000,000 | 1,200,000,000 |
Scientific errors and the myth of embryology in the Koran:
In an effort to show the scientific accuracy of the Koran, Muslim's are quick to bring up the claim of embryology revealed in stunning accuracy, before man discovered for himself. Muslims love to tell the story of how professor Keith L. Moore, the former anatomist at the University of Toronto, was impressed with the Koran’s embryological information.
However many Muslim are completely unaware that all of the information in the Qur'an about embryology had already been revealed many different times, centuries before hand. Furthermore, some of the information is scientifically inaccurate.
But don't take my word for it, early Muslim doctors, like Ibn-Qayyim, were first to blow the whistle when they saw the Koranic material, mirrored a Greek doctor named Galen, who lived of 150 AD. In 1983 Basim Musallam, Director of the Centre of Middle Eastern Studies at the University of Cambridge concluded, "The stages of development which the Qur'an and Hadith established for believers agreed perfectly with Galen's scientific account....There is no doubt that medieval thought appreciated this agreement between the Qur'an and Galen, for Arabic science employed the same Qur'anic terms to describe the Galenic stages" (B. Musallam (Cambridge, 1983) Sex and Society in Islam. p. 54) In other words when it comes to embryology the Qur'an merely echoes the scientific knowledge man had already discovered 450 years earlier.
Samuel ha-Yehudi was a 2nd century Jewish physician, and one of many with an interest in embryology . The embryo was called peri habbetten (fruit of the body) and develops as golem (formless, rolled-up thing); shefir meruqqam (embroidered foetus - shefir means amniotic sac); 'ubbar (something carried); v'alad (child); v'alad shel qayama (noble or viable child) and ben she-kallu chadashav (child whose months have been completed). (J. Needham (Cambridge, 2nd edition 1959) A History of Embryology, p. 77)
J. Needham spent almost 60 pages in his book "A history of embryology", discussing ancient Greek, Indian and Egyptian embryology, than in less than 1 page he dismisses the entire Arabic tradition by concluding that "Arabic science ... was not of great help to embryology". After listing some of the verses in the Qur'an about embryology he dismisses them as "a seventh-century echo of Aristotle and the Ayer-veda" . (J. Needham (Cambridge, 2nd edition 1959) A History of Embryology, p. 82), in other words a mixture of Greek and ancient Indian teachings.
And what about professor Keith L. Moore, once at the University of Toronto, who Muslims love to quote as a scientist who saw the light of the Koran? If you buy Moore’s latest sixth edition University textbook called "The developing human", he actually directs his readers to read an essay by Basim Musallam, who we just quoted. who shows that the Koran merely echoes what Greek doctor "Galen" wrote 450 years earlier. It seems Dr. Moore is not as impressed today. (B. Musallam, The human embryo in Arabic scientific and religious thought, in, G. R. Dunstan (ed.) (University of Exeter Press, 1990) The human embryo: Aristotle and the Arabic and European traditions, pp. 32-46)
Bones Before Muscle? The Koran got it wrong!
Keith L. Moore knows that the Koran is wrong when it says that bones are formed first, then flesh is placed upon them.
"Look further at the bones, how We bring them together and clothe them with flesh ..." (Al-Baqara 2:259)
The Koran gives the impression that first the skeleton is formed, and then it is clothed with mustle. Dr. Bucaille knows perfectly well that this is not true. The muscles and the cartilage precursors of the bones start forming from the somite at the same time. At the end of the eighth week there are only a few centers of ossification started but the fetus is already capable of some muscular movement.
In a personal letter dated 8/1/87 from Dr. T.W. Sadler, Ph.D., Associate Professor in the Department of Anatomy at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, N.C. 27514, and author of Langman's Medical Embryology, Dr. Sadler states,
"At the 8th week post fertilization, the ribs would be cartilaginous and muscles would be present. Also at this time ossification would begin near the angle of the rib and would spread along the shaft until it reached the costal cartilage by the 4th month. Muscles would be capable of some movement at 8 weeks, but by 10-12 weeks this capacity would be much better developed."
It is always better to have two witnesses so we shall see what Dr. Keith L. Moore has to say about the development of bones and muscles in his book The Developing Human. Extracted from Chapters 15-17 we find the following information:
The skeletal and muscle system develops from the mesoderm, some of which becomes mesenchymal cells. These mesenchymal cells make muscles, and also have the ability to differentiate...into osteoblasts which make bone. At first the bones form as cartilage models so that by the end of the sixth week the whole limb skeleton is formed out of cartilage but without any bony calcium as shown in Figure 15-13. (Keith L. Moore, The Developing Human, 4th ed., 1988, p. 346.)
While the bone models are forming, myoblasts develop a large muscle mass in each limb bud, separating into extensor and flexor components. In other words, the limb musculature develops simultaneously in situ from the mesenchyme surrounding the developing bones. So Dr. Moore agrees completely with Dr. Sadler.
Furthermore, during a personal conversation with Dr. Moore I showed him Dr. Sadler's statement and he agreed that it was absolutely valid.
Conclusion: on bone development Dr. Sadler and Dr. Moore agree. There is no time when calcified bones have been formed and then the muscles are placed around them. The muscles are there several weeks before there are calcified bones, rather than being added around previously formed bones as the Qur'an states. The Qur'an is in complete error here.
We are going to examine the historical situation leading up to the time of Muhammad to see what Muhammad and his people believed about embryology. The trail will start with the Greek and Indian medical men.
HIPPOCRATES
We will start with Hippocrates. According to the best evidence, he was born on the Greek island of Cos in 460 BC. His stages are as follows with the references in the text.
Semen
Sperm is a product which comes from the whole body of each parent, weak sperm coming from the weak parts, and strong sperm from the strong parts. Section 8, p 321
Coagulation of Mother's blood
The seed (embryo), then, is contained in a membrane ... Moreover, it grows because of its mother's blood, which descends to the womb. For once a woman conceives, she ceases to menstruate... Section 14, p. 326
Flesh
At this stage, with the descent and coagulation of the mother's blood, flesh begins to be formed, with the umbilicus. Section 14, p. 326
Bones
As the flesh grows it is formed into distinct members by breath ... The bones grow hard ... moreover they send out branches like a tree ... Section 17, p. 328
This information is clearly summarized in the following chart.
STAGES OF PRENATAL DEVELOPMENT ACCORDING TO HIPPOCRATES
STAGE 1. sperm
STAGE 2. mother's blood descends around the membrane
STAGE 3. flesh, fed through umbilicus
STAGE 4. bones
Clearly this shows that 1000 years before the Qur'an the development of the embryo was divided into stages.
ARISTOTLE
Next we will look at Aristotle. In his book On the Generation of Animals, (Aristotle, On the Generation of Animals, Trans. by Arthur Platt, Vol. 9 of Great Books of the Western World, Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc., 1952.) sometime about 350 BC, Aristotle gives his stages of embryology. (The section numbers are in the text.)
Semen and menstrual blood
In this section, 728a, Aristotle speaks of the male semen as being in a pure state ... "It follows that what the female would contribute to the semen of the male would be material for the semen to work upon." In other words the semen clots the menstrual blood.
Then he continues, "Nature forms from the purest material the flesh ... and from the residues thereof bones, sinews, hair, and also nails ... and lastly, round about the bones, and attached to them by thin fibrous bands, grow the fleshy parts. ..." 654b
Clearly the Qur'an follows this exactly, sperm clotting the menstrual blood which forms meat. Then the bones are formed and lastly "round about the bones ... grow the fleshy parts" as we see in the following chart.
STAGES OF PRENATAL DEVELOPMENT ACCORDING TO ARISTOTLE
STAGE 1. sperm
STAGE 2. catamenia -- menstrual blood
STAGE 3. flesh
STAGE 4. bones
STAGE 5. around the bones grow the fleshy parts
NEXT WE SHALL CONSIDER INDIAN MEDICINE
The opinion of Charaka (123 AD) and Susruta is that both the male and female contributed seed. The "secretion" of the male is called the sukra (semen) ...
The "secretion" of the woman is called artava or sonita (blood) and it is derived from food by way of blood ..." (Dr. P. Kutumbiah, M.D., F.R.C.P., Ancient Indian Medicine, Orient Longmans, Madras, 1969, p. 2-4.)
Here we see that in the medicine of India, they too had the idea that the child was formed from the male semen and the female menstrual blood.
====================================================================
NOW WE SHALL LOOK AT GALEN
Galen was born in 131 AD in Pergamum (modern Bergama in Turkey).
Our knowledge of his book, De Semine, depends on two Greek manuscripts of the 15th and 16th century and two Arabic copies from the 12th and 13th century of the same translation made in about 840 AD, i.e. 700 years after Galen lived. Galen's work was considered so important that copies were still being made in 1500 AD. Secondly, although the Arabic copies reflect a translation made 700 years after Galen's life, no one doubts their essential accuracy.
I mention this because in comparison we Christians have 75% of the Greek Gospel-New Testament in papyrus copies from only 150 years after Christ ascended into heaven, and we have 2 complete Greek copies from 350 AD. Therefore, there is no reason to doubt the essential accuracy of the Gospel-New Testament either. It has not been changed.
Galen - On Semen
Galen says, "The substance from which the fetus is formed is not merely menstrual blood, as Aristotle maintained, but menstrual blood plus the two semens." p 50.
The Qur'an agrees with Galen here when it says in Sura 76:2, "We created man from a drop of mingled sperm."
Embryological Development
Concerning Embryological development, Galen also taught that the embryo developed in stages.
He wrote, "the first is that in which ... the form of the semen prevails. At this time Hippocrates too, the all marvelous, ... still calls it semen (geniture)."
The next stage is "when it has been filled with blood, and heart, brain and liver are (still) unarticulated and unshaped ... this is the period ... that Hippocrates (called) foetus."
(The Quranic Sura 22:5 reflects this when it says, "... Then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed ...")
"And now the third period of gestation has come ... Thus it (nature) caused flesh to grow on and around all the bones."
We saw above that the Qur'an agrees with this in Sura 23:14 where it says, "And we clothed the bones (with) meat."
"The fourth and final period (puer or child - verse 9) is at the stage when all the parts in the limbs have been differentiated." (Galen, op.cit. I 9, verses 1-9, p. 92-95.)
GALEN'S STAGES OF PRENATAL DEVELOPMENT
STAGE 1. The two semens
STAGE 1b. plus menstrual blood
STAGE 2. unshaped flesh
STAGE 3. bones
STAGE 3b. flesh grows on and around the bones
Thus we see that Galen also has stages. He divides them differently, but the sequence is the same.
THE XVI BOOKS OF GALEN AS THE BASIS OF MEDICAL STUDIES
Galen was so important in medicine that just about the time of the Hejira, four leading medical men in Alexandria, Egypt decided to form a medical school using 16 books of Galen as the basis of the studies. This continued up to and including the 13th century. (LeClerc, op. cit., p. 41.)
ARABIA AROUND 600 AD, BETWEEN GALEN AND AVICENNA
We must now ask ourselves what the political, economic and medical climate was in Arabia at the time of Muhammad.
From the Hadramaut in Yemen, the caravans of the spice trade passed north through Mecca and Medina and then reached into all of Europe.
In North Arabia in about 500 AD the Ghassanids took over and by 528 AD the Ghassan controlled the Syrian desert to the outskirts of Yathrib (Medina). Syriac (a form of Aramaic, related to Arabic) was their official language.
As early as 463 AD, the Jews translated the Torah and Old Testament from Hebrew into Syriac. (The British Museum has a copy) This made it available to the Ghassan who were Christians and to the Jewish tribes in Arabia for their members who didn't know Hebrew.
During this time, Sergius al-ras Ayni, (died in Constantinople in 536 AD), one of the earliest and greatest translators from Greek into Syriac (Aramaic), translated various works on medicine, including 26 books of Galen's works into Syriac. This made them available in the Kingdom of Khosru I and to the Ghassan Tribe whose influence extended to the outskirts of Medina.
Khosru I, (Arabic Kisra) King of Persia from 531-579, was known as Khosru the Great. His troops conquered areas as far away as Yemen. He also loved learning and started several schools.
"The school of Jundi-Shapur became, during Khosru I's long reign of 48 years, the greatest intellectual center of the time. Within its walls Greek, Jewish, Nestorian, Persian and Hindu thought and experience were freely exchanged.
Teaching was done largely in Syriac from Syriac translations of Greek texts." (The Role of the Nestorians and Muslims in the History of Medicine, Allen O. Whipple, 1967, Princeton Univ. Press, p. 16.) This meant that Aristotle, Hippocrates, and Galen were readily available when the medical school at Jundi-Shapur was operating during his reign.
The next step was that the conquering Arabs compelled the Nestorians to translate their Syriac texts of Greek medicine into Arabic. The translation from Syriac to Arabic was easy as the two languages had the same grammar.
Concerning the local medical situation during Muhammad's life, we know there were physicians living in Arabia during this period.
Harith ben Kalada was the best-educated physician trained in the healing art. "He was born about the middle of the sixth century, at Ta'if, in the tribe of Banu Thaqif. He traveled through Yemen and then Persia where he received his education in the medical sciences at the great medical school of Jundi-Shapur and thus was intimately acquainted with the medical teachings of Aristotle, Hippocrates and Galen.
"Having completed his studies he practiced as a physician in Persia and during this time he was called to the court of King Khosru, with whom he had a long conversation. He came back to Arabia about the beginning of Islam and settled down at Ta'if. While there Abu'l-Khayr, a King of Yemen, came to see him, in connection with a certain disease from which he was suffering and, on being cured, rewarded him with much money and a slave girl.
"Though Harith ben Kalada did not write any book on medicine, his views on many medical problems are preserved in his conversation with Khosru. About the eye he says that it is constituted of fat which is the white part, of water which is the black part, and of wind which constituted the eyesight." All this ... goes to show the acquaintance of Harith with the Greek doctors. (Dr. Muhammad Zubayr Siddiqi,Studies in Arabic and Persian Medical Literature, Calcutta University, 1959, p. 6-7.) He died in the reign of 'Umar the 2nd Caliph.
Summarizing the situation in a few words in his book Histoire de la Médecine Arabe, Dr. Lucien LeClerc writes,
"Harith ben Kalada studied medicine at Jandi-Shapur and Muhammad owed to Harith a part of his medical knowledge. Thus, with the one as well as the other, we easily recognize the traces of Greek (medicine)." (LeClerc, op.cit., p. 123)
"Sometimes Muhammad treated the sick but in the difficult cases he would send the patients to Harith." (LeClerc, op.cit., p. 33.)
Another educated person around Muhammad was Nadr ben Harith--not related to the doctor. He was a Qurayshite and cousin of Muhammad and had also visited the court of Khosru. He had learned Persian and music which he introduced among the Quraish at Mecca.
However, he was not sympathetic to Muhammad, mocking some of the stories in the Qur'an. "Muhammad never forgave him for this, and when he was taken prisoner at the Battle of Badr, he caused him to be put to death." (Edward G. Brown, M.B., F.R.C.P., Arabian Medicine, Cambridge, 1921, p. 11.)
In summary, we see that
(1) Arabs living in Mecca and Medina in 600 AD had political and economic relations with people from Ethiopia, Yemen, Persia, and Byzantium, i.e. present day Turkey.
(2) A cousin of Muhammad knew Persian well enough to do his musical studies in it.
(3) The Ghassan tribe, which ruled the Syrian desert over to the gates of Medina, used Syriac--one of the main languages used to teach medicine at Jundi-Shapur--as their official language.
(4) An ill king of Yemen came to Ta'if to consult the physician Harith ben Kalada who had been trained at Jundi-Shapur--the best medical school in that world--and to whom Muhammad sometimes sent patients.
(5) During Muhammad's life time a new medical school was established in Alexandria using the XVI books of Galen as their texts.
This all shows that there was ample opportunity for Muhammad and the people around him to have heard of the embryological theories of Aristotle, Hippocrates and Galen when they went to seek treatment from Harith ben Kalada and other local doctors.
Thus when the Qur'an says in the Late Meccan Sura of the Believer (Al-Mu'min) 40:67,
"He it is Who created you from dust, then from a sperm-drop, then from a leech-like clot (‘alaqa) ... THAT PERHAPS YOU MAY UNDERSTAND,"
And when the Sura of the Pilgrimage (Al-Hajj) 22:5 starts out,
"O mankind! if you have doubt about the resurrection (consider) that We have created you from dust, then from a drop of seed, then from a clot (‘alaqa), etc..."
it is correct for us to ask again what were they to understand?
What were they to consider?
When we look at the Quranic stages again the answer is very clear.
QURANIC STAGES OF PRENATAL DEVELOPMENT
STAGE 1. nutfa -- sperm
STAGE 2. ‘alaqa -- clot
STAGE 3. mudagha -- piece or lump of flesh
STAGE 4. ‘adaam -- bones
STAGE 5. dressing the bones with muscles
They were understanding and considering that which was common knowledge--the embryological stages as taught by the Greek physicians.
I do not mean that Muhammad's listeners all knew the names of the Greek physicians, but they knew the embryological stages of the Greek physicians.
(1) They believed that the male sperm
(2) mixed with the female semen and menstrual blood to cause it to clot and this became the baby.
(3) They believed there was a time when the fetal lump was "formed and unformed".
(4) They believed the lump became bones
(5) which were then covered with muscles
Allah in the Qur'an was using that common knowledge as a sign encouraging the listeners and readers to turn to Him. The trouble is that this common knowledge was and is not true.
ARAB PHYSICIANS AFTER MUHAMMAD
We must now look at one hadith and two well-known physicians from the period after Muhammad. Obviously they had no effect on the Qur'an, but they demonstrate that faith in the embryological ideas of Aristotle, Hippocrates and Galen continued among the Arabs right up to the 1600's.
The Hadith is found in the Forty Hadiths of An-Nawawi and reads as follows,
This Hadith is reported according to Abi ‘Abd-ar-rahman ‘Abdallah ben Mas‘ud, may God be pleased with him, who said: The Apostle of God, may God bless him and grant him salvation, spoke to us and he is truthful and worthy of belief:
"The creation of any one of you is accomplished in various stages in the abdomen of your mother; 40 days a drop of sperm; then he will be (‘alaqa) a clot for the same period, then chewed meat (mudagha) for the same period; then the angel will be sent to him and he will blow into him the spirit (soul) and he will order four words (about the future) by writing: his monetary fortune, and his length of life, and his actions, and whether he is to be damned or happy in the hereafter.
"And I swear by God Whom there is no other God except Him: it could be that one of you will do acts as the people of heaven until there remains only one arms length between him and it (heaven), and the writing ( of his future) will overtake him and he will do the acts of the people of the fire and he will enter it. And it could be that one of you will do acts of the people of the fire until there remains only one arms length between him and it, and the writing (of his future) will overtake him and he will do the acts of the people of heaven and he will enter it." (translation mine) Transmitted by Bukhari and Muslim. (An-Nawawi, op. cit., p. 28-29.)
We have here a Hadith which is reported to be from the mouth of Muhammad; attested to by the best authorities--Bukhari and Muslim; included in a special collection of Hadiths by a specialist in Hadiths; which has gross scientific errors. It follows the stages of the Qur'an exactly, but here Muhammad has added other information. The drop of sperm remains a drop of sperm 40 days, then an "‘alaqa" 40 days for a total of 80 days, then "chewed meat" for 40 days for a total of 120 days as shown in the following summary. Modern gynecological studies have shown that sperm remain alive less than a week inside the female genital tract, and that at 70 days organ differentiation and maturation are well advanced, except for the brain.
HADITH'S STAGES OF PRENATAL DEVELOPMENT
STAGE 1. sperm--for 40 days
STAGE 2. ‘alaqa -- clot for 40 days
STAGE 3. mudagha -- flesh for 40 days
This makes a total of 120 days or 3 months and there are still no bones.
In truth all organs are formed, bones are beginning to calcify, and muscles are moving at 2 months.
This Hadith says that it doesn't even become "an unformed lump" until 80 days, a clear error. Dr. Bucaille also mentions this Hadith and concludes,
"This description of embryonic evolution does not agree with modern data." (Bucaille, BQ&S, p. 245.)
However, it clearly shows something of what men believed only 200 years away from Muhammad, and it raises severe theological problems in relation to all the Hadith.
THE THEOLOGICAL PROBLEM
Do the scientific errors in this Hadith make the theological statements of Muhammad wrong too?
If the scientific error proves that this well attested Hadith is wrong, how do we know anything about the validity of the other well attested Hadiths which don't happen to have a scientific error to betray that they are wrong?
An even more crucial question is, how do we know that this Hadith is not an accurate transmission? How do we know that this does not represent Muhammad's words and understanding of the scientific facts???
Furthermore, if the correct translation of "alaqa" is "leech-like substance" as modern Muslims like Shabir Ally claim, there is no place where these post-Quranic doctors said so. In fact, it is just the opposite. The ideas of these Greek physicians were being used to explain the Qur'an and the Qur'an was quoted to enlighten the meaning of the Greek physicians.
Avicenna (Ibn Sina) 980-1037 AD wrote,
679. The human being takes its origin from two things---(1) the male sperm, which plays the part of "factor"; (2) the female sperm [first part of the menstrual blood], which provides the matter ... These give the coagulum ("He created man from a clot"---Q. 96,2) a certain hardiness or firmness. (Gruner, op.cit., p. 359.)
Thus we see that "Ibn Sina gave the female semen exactly the same role that Aristotle had assigned to the menstrual blood ... It is difficult to overstate the importance of Ibn Sina as a scientific and philosophical authority for the pre-modern Europeans. (Musallam, Basim F., Sex and Society in Islam, Birth control before the 19th century. Cambridge University Press, 1983, p. 47-48.)
Ibn Qayyim Al-Jawziyya (1291-1351)
Ibn Qayyim took full advantage of the agreement between Quranic revelation and Greek medicine.
Here Ibn Qayyim is writing a medical account which includes
Hippocrates (italics),
the Qur'an (bold),
Hadith (bold underlined),
commentaries (plain underlined),
and his own thoughts (in plain)
in one and the same paragraph.
Hippocrates said in the third chapter of Kitab al-ajinna: "... The semen is contained in a membrane, and it grows because of the blood of its mother which descends to the womb (This is exactly what we quoted from Hippocrates at the beginning of this section: "The seed (embryo), then, is contained in a membrane ... Moreover, it grows because of its mother's blood, which descends to the womb. For once a woman conceives, she ceases to menstruate ... Section 14, p. 326." ) ... Some membranes are formed at the beginning, others after the second month, and others in the third month ..." That is why God says, "He creates you in the wombs of your mothers, by one formation after another in three darknesses" (Qur'an 39:6). Since each of these membranes has its own darkness, when God mentioned the stages of creation and transformation from one state to another, He also mentioned the darknesses of the membranes. Most commentators explain: 'it is the darkness of the belly, and the darkness of the womb, and the darkness of the placenta' ...
In a second example we read,
Hippocrates said, "The mouth opens up spontaneously, and the nose and ears are formed from the flesh. The ears are opened, and the eyes, which are filled with a clear liquid." The Prophet used to say, 'I worship Him Who made my face and formed it, and opened my hearing and eyesight' etc. etc." (Ibn Qayyim, Tuhfat, p. 248-52.)
He could do this because, as we have seen, the educated people of Muhammad's time were familiar with Greek medicine.
However, what is important for us sitting here today to realize is that there is no place where the Qur'an corrected Greek medicine. There is no place where Ibn Qayyim was shouting "Hay you guys. You've got this all wrong. The correct meaning of ‘alaqa is "that which clings" or "leech-like substance." On the contrary, Ibn Qayyim was demonstrating the agreement between the Qur'an and Greek medicine--their agreement in error.
A final witness is the commentary of Imam Naasir-addiin Baidawi who died in 1282 AD. He quotes Sura 22:5 and then gives his understanding. He explains ‘alaqa as "a piece of solid blood (qata min al-dam jaamida)" and mudagha as "a piece of meat originally as much as can be chewed (qata min al-lahm wa hiya fii al-aasal qadr maa yamdagh) ". (Baidawi's commentary of Sura Al-Hajj 22:1-5, Dar Al-Fikr, P.O. Box 11/7061, Beirut, Lebanon, 1982, p. 439. )
Stages of development - a modern idea?!?
As I mentioned at the beginning of this study, it has been said that the idea of the embryo developing through stages is a modern one, and that the Qur'an is prophesying modern embryology by depicting differing stages. Yet, we have seen that Aristotle, Hippocrates, the Indians and Galen have all discussed stages of embryological development during the 1000 years before the Qur'an.
And after the coming of the Qur'an, the account of the different stages as described by the Qur'an, was carried on in the teachings of the Hadiths, Avicenna and Ibn Qayyim, and is essentially the same as that taught by Galen and those preceding him.
Concerning the bone stage, it is clear, as Dr. Moore demonstrates so capably in his textbook, that muscles start forming from the somites at the same time as the cartilage models of the bones. There is no bone stage at which the limbs of the developing fetus are just bones around which muscles will later be placed.
It is equally clear, that ‘alaqa in the Qur'an means clot and that the Quraish who heard Muhammad speaking understood him to be referring to the menstrual blood as the female contribution to the developing baby.
Therefore we can conclude that during all these years, the Quranic verses on embryology saying that "man is created from a drop of sperm which becomes a clot" were in perfect accord with the "science" of the 1st century of the Hejira, of the time of the Qur'an.
But when compared with the modern science of our 20th century,
Hippocrates is in error,
Aristotle is in error,
Galen is in error,
The Qur'an is in error.
They are all in serious error.
(the section above by Dr. William Campbell)
An extraordinary passage from the writings of the medieval philosopher Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya shows how heavily the later Arabic writers depended upon the Greek doctors; in one continuous discourse (Ibn Qayyin (Damascus, 1971) Tuhfat: Tuhfat al mawdud bi ahkam al-mawlud, pp. 254-291) the words of Hippocrates explain the Qur'an and Hadith, and the latter are used to explain Hippocrates:
"Here is someone writing a medical account who includes Hippocrates (bold type), the Qur'an and Hadith (bold italics), commentaries on them (italics) and his own thoughts (normal type) in one and the same paragraph. Of course the intelligentsia of Muhammed's time would have been familiar with both Greek and Indian medicine: "Hippocrates said ... 'some membranes are formed at the beginning, others after the second month, and others in the third month ...' That is why God says, 'He creates you in the wombs of your mothers, by one formation after another in three darknesses'. Since each of these membranes has its own darkness, when God mentioned the stages of creation and transformation from one state to another, He also mentioned the darknesses of the membranes. Most commentators explain: 'it is the darkness of the belly, and the darkness of the womb, and the darkness of the placenta' ... Hippocrates said, 'The ears are opened, and the eyes, which are filled with a clear liquid.' The Prophet used to say, 'I worship Him Who made my face and formed it, and opened my hearing and eyesight' etc. etc"" (B. Musallam (Cambridge, 1983) Sex and Society in Islam. p. 56).
The Koran says in16:4 "He has created man from a sperm-drop", but this was understood about 2000 years before the Koran, for the Bible says, "Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife, he wasted his seed on the ground in order not to give offspring to his brother." (Genesis 38:9) That man was created from dust is recorded in Gen 2.
Scientific errors related to embryology are contained in the Koran. In 86:6-7 the Koran says, "He is created from a drop emitted- Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs". This echoes the scientific error of Hippocrates who believe semen originates from all the fluid in the body, starting from the brain down the spinal chord, before passing through the kidneys and finally the testicles into the penis. (Hippocratic Writings, Penguin Classics, 1983, p. 317)
JEWS are better than MUSLIMS in...
Conclusion:
The claim is sometimes made that Hitler was a Christian - a Roman Catholic until the day he died. In fact, Hitler rejected Christianity.
The book Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc.first edition, 1953, contains definitive proof of Hitler's real views. The book was published in Britain under the title, _Hitler's Table Talk 1941-1944, which title was used for the Oxford University Press paperback edition in the United States.
All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:
Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:
National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)
10th October, 1941, midday:
Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)
14th October, 1941, midday:
The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)
19th October, 1941, night:
The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.
21st October, 1941, midday:
Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)
13th December, 1941, midnight:
Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)
14th December, 1941, midday:
Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)
9th April, 1942, dinner:
There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)
27th February, 1942, midday:
It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)
A reader asks,"Where did the quotes from Hitler's Secret Conversations come from? How do we know that they are accurate?"
Hitler's Secret Conversations is a translation of a document called the "Bormann-Vermerke" or Borrman endorsements. They are a collection of hand written notes made by Martin Bormann who was Hitler's personal secretary during the war. Bormann is known to have been an extraordinarily powerful figure in Nazi Germany and a notorious opponent of Christianity.
There is no real dispute regarding the authenticity of these notes. They are what Borrman wrote. They are published in the original German in Adolf Hitler, Monologe im Führerhauptquartier 1941-1944. published by Orbis Verlag, Hamburg, Approved Special Edition in 2000.
The quotes are disputed by some because Hitler is often quoted as publically professing to be a Christian. The simplest reconciliation of this seeming contradiction is that Hitler lied to gain the support of the German people, 90% of whom where professing Christians.
What follows is an excerpt from "Inside the Third Reich" by Hitler's chief architect and minister of Armaments, Albert Speer. It illuminates how Hitler "adapted his remarks to his surroundings", thus making himself a friend of the church when it was convenient. It is also another independent witness to Hitler's true feeling regarding Christianity -- it was meek and flabby, Germany would have been better off if Islam had conquered Europe after the battle of Tours, and that Germany had the misfortune of having the wrong religion.
From Inside the Third Reich, Memiors by Albert Speer, Translated from the German by Richard and Clara Winston, Avon Publishers, 1970:
What remains in my memory of social life at Obersalzberg is a curious vacuity. Fortunately, during my first years of imprisonment, while my recollections were still fresh, I noted down a few scraps of conversations which I can now regard as reasonably authentic....
Amid his political associates in Berlin, Hitler made harsh pronouncements against the church, but in the presence of women he adopted a milder tone -- one of the instances where he adapted his remarks to his surroundings.
"The church is certainly necessary for the people. It is a strong and conservative element," he might say at one time or another in this private circle. However, he conceived of the church as an instrument that could be useful to him. "If only Reibi [this was his nickname for Reich Bishop Ludwig Müller] had some kind of stature. But why do they appoint a nobody of an army chaplain? I'd be glad to give him my full support. Think of all he could do with that. Through me the Evangelical [Protestant] Church could become the established church, as in England."
Even after 1942 Hitler went on maintaining that he regarded the church as indispensable in political life. He would be happy, he said in one of those teatime talks at Obersalzberg, if someday a prominent churchman turned up who was suited to lead one of the churches -- or if possible both the Catholic and Protestant churches reunited. He still regretted that Reich Bishop Müller was not the right man to carry out his far-reaching plans. But he sharply condemned the campaign against the church, calling it a crime against the future of the nation. For it was impossible, he said, to replace the church by any "party ideology." Undoubtedly, he continued, the church would learn to adapt to the political goals of National Socialism in the long run, as it had always adapted in the course of history. A new party religion would only bring about a relapse into the mysticism of the Middle Ages. The growing SS myth showed that clearly enough, as did Rosenburg's unreadable Myth of the Twentieth Century.
If in the course of such a monologue Hitler had pronounced a more negative judgment upon the church, Bormann would undoubtedly have taken from his jacket pocket one of the white cards he always carried with him. For he noted down all Hitler's remarks that seemed to him important; and there was hardly anything he wrote down more eagerly than deprecating comments on the church. At the time I assumed that he was gathering material for a biography of Hitler.
Around 1937, when Hitler heard that at the instigation of the party and the SS vast numbers of his followers had left the church because it was obstinately opposing his plans, he nevertheless ordered his chief associates, above all Goering and Goebbels, to remain members of the church. He too would remain a member of the Catholic Church, he said, although he had no real attachment to it. And in fact he remained in the church until his suicide.
Hitler had been much impressed by a scrap of history he had learned from a delegation of distinguished Arabs. When the Mohammedans attempted to penetrate beyond France into Central Europe during the eight century, his visitors had told him, they had been driven back at the battle of Tours. Had the Arabs won this battle, the world would be Mohammedan today. For theirs was a religion that believed in spreading the faith by the sword and subjugating all nations to that faith. The Germanic peoples would have become the heirs to that religion. Such a creed was perfectly suited to the Germanic temperament. Hitler said that the conquering Arabs, because of their racial inferiority, would in the long run have been unable to contend with the harsher climate and conditions of the country. They could not have kept down the more vigorous natives, so that ultimately not Arabs but Islamized Germans could have stood at the head of this Mohammedan Empire.
Hitler usually concluded this historical speculation by remarking: "You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japaneses, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to use than Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"
